Employing Soc Relations

[ToolMan]

This thread is posted in oCZ, Forsaken, and Zychion Citizens forums.

http://www.ocz-forum.com (http://www.ocz-forum.com/)
http://www.zychion-citizens.org (http://www.zychion-citizens.org/)
http://www.theforsaken.se (http://www.theforsaken.se/)

This thread is also intended for members of “Natural Born Killers” society … may they join us in our endeavor. It is my deepest hope that this document is well received by all.

Introduction

First I wanted to say thanks to Itto and Burgerman of forsaken society for their invitation to join their forum. This was a kind and generous offer indeed. I would also like to thank Matt and Vedder of Zychion Citizens for maintaining my membership in theirs. I also wanted to apologize for not posting our invitation for everyone to join our forum sooner, but I was a little busy working out some details. Of course, you are all welcome to come to our humble site and participate: we encourage it, and thanks =)

Second I wanted to share with you the reasons why I am here and what my true intentions are. Bunny wrote in her welcome thread in the Forsaken forum, “…We hope you enjoy our web forum and will contribute to it.” I do want to contribute, but I want to contribute to more than your forum. I want to contribute to your way of life on Calypso. I want to contribute more than just words and pictures. I want to contribute agreements that will fuel avatars and industries in Project Entropia, and will eventually form alliances of societies that walk under one united banner, exalting all of Calypso with its embrace.

What I propose we do is help to give meaning and significance to the “Society Relations” portion of the Soc Terminal: very deep meaning and significance. Let’s make a setting of “Friendly” actually mean friendly on many levels. Let’s work together to help our fellow societies as we help our fellow mates. Let’s work aside one another to foster caring and kinship in Project Entropia, and let’s stand together to thwart those that seek to bring chaos and disorder to our way of life on Calypso.

“Friendly” Relations

When one finds a kind and generous avatar to join a society it’s a celebration of the senses. There is nothing more rewarding than to know that such people are out there in PE, and that they choose to ally with the soc. What of the discovery of whole societies comprised of such wonderful individuals? How much of a celebration is that, indeed? Should we not develop methods to incorporate ourselves for the better of all?

I believe that communications though our forums, political unity, and a decent trade agreement are enough to spur growth in crafting and trading industries, enough to fuel growth within individual societies, and enough to help broaden our decent and wholesome lifestyles here in PE. Such contributing efforts that help traders and crafters achieve more with their individual PED’s helps to get hunters and miners the items that they need at greatly reduced rates also, which in turn helps fuel greater production and further growth.

Such trade agreements and communications efforts are a good place to start, and I hope this idea sits well with everyone. I believe that it will open-up the possibility for Events, Crafting Fairs, Collaborative Field Work, Support Missions, etc. Anyone interested in pursuing these ideas are invited to reply here, or start a thread at our forum @ http://www.ocz-forum.com (http://www.ocz-forum.com/) Any help we can get with this effort is greatly appreciated.

“Hostile” Relations

It’s a shame, but not every person or society on Calypso shares our views of this virtual world or our methods of operation. While most casually stroll by, there are others who make their disdain for society loudly known to all, through scamming or PK’ing or disrespectful behavior. Should horrendous offenses occur these societies are usually placed in a “Hostile” position on our society relations tab, or individual names published in our forums, to help keep our members informed of whom to avoid during their travels with us.

While we at oCZ know that your society is filled to the brim with good and decent people, would we stand with you and fight for your causes? Would you for us? Should one of your society mates be scammed, would we reciprocate your setting of hostility toward the offender? Would we come to your aid should you call upon us? Could we call on you in our time of need?

Could large scale alliances prove useful in developing laws, and would it have the population needed to enforce those laws? There are some foes that are just too tough: Should we allow these individuals to walk all over us and behave as they please, or should we come together to form that which is stronger together than we are alone? Could such alliances prove useful to the overall sociology of Project Entropia?

Such are the questions that I would like to see answered through our communications efforts together in our forums. I believe that such alliances could be formed, and would be useful, but only time will tell and such ideas are out of reach just yet. It’s only food for thought. For more information on ideas associated with Hostile relations, please see this thread: http://www.ocz-forum.com/showthread.php?t=251 (http://www.ocz-forum.com/showthread.php?t=251)

The Union

Freelancers walk this planet of ours taking care of no one but themselves. While we are all stemmed from Freelancer roots, the freelancers’ life is not for us, and we have all come to know something better and far more rewarding than looking-out for ourselves.

We have joined societies that have shown us a new way to live on Calypso. We have, all of us, become a part of something special on a great many levels. We have come to know what real friendship and camaraderie is, and have grown to defend it with tooth and claw, if necessary. Should a soc-mate need our help, or need our advice, or should fall in battle and need our assistance, we have come to be counted on in any of those situations. We are mates among mates, and are treated as such.

Why can’t we together not expand that meaning and importance to friendships as we have done with our soc-mates? Why can we not come to agreements with respect to trade and relations that benefit ALL and not a few? Why can we not profit from MA and not from friends, the kindest of avatars known on this humble planet of ours? Why can we not stand together and fight against that which we feel is wrong, be it a wrong to me or a wrong to you?

I believe we can. I believe that we must unite in order to fight the forces that are to strong for a mere few, yet will cower before the might of the many. I believe that, as friends, we can do for PE sociology what no one else has done before. I believe so strongly in these things that I have fought for them for nearly a year now, and continue to fight to this day for the “consummation devoutly to be wished.”

Should we start with trade? Should we start with coming to the aid of each other, when in need? Should we do both, at the same time, together unconditionally? I am not sure how such things should proceed, but I know that I’m not crazy. I know that I’m not wrong to think that we, together, can be something more than we are now alone. I know that, given the right circumstances and conditions we can work together for years to come.

Please feel free to post in this thread, or any other forum that bears this thread. I and mine will be watching this post with great enthusiasm and are looking forward to your responses. Should you desire to proceed with such treatise please PM me here, or in our forum, or meet me in-game at any time. I and mine are always open to discussion on this matter. Also, should you see a Chan’ Zen member in-game do not hesitate to approach them. No man is an island, and I am nothing without them. They are charged with the future of our society, and I trust that they will bring us into the future with decency, self-respect, and a sense of kindness and virtue unlike any ever seen on this planet of ours.

… I trust you will do the same!

Thanks for your consideration,
ToolMan.

[itto]

Whoo Great Ideas & Great plans mate :=D>:
Unforunately im off to work now so a proper replay will come later
But let me start with giving you some Rep+ for the post

and i also to encourage you to post this on Hunters Extreme forum http://www.hunters-extreme.com/forums & at CC Coboys Forum http://www.cc-cowboys.com/

/itto

[ToolMan]

I think it's a wonderful Idea Itto ... I'm friends with you and you're friends with me. Why shouldn't my friends be yours and yours mine? No reason at all. If you really feel that they will be receptive to the idea, and would be interested in joining such an effort, I will not hesitate to post in their forums.

There are currently ALOT of great ideas coming from the ZC Camp, and enthusiasm is VERY high there. They recently had a hacker spam (was spamming their forum with a link to a key-logger) and are on tight lock-down. You may have to register to enter, but I am certain that you are all welcome there.

So far they are interested in finding a name to call ourselves: the unity of socs. Is this a reasonable idea? If so, have you any ideas for a name also?

They are also interested in activities, and the one activity that seems to gather the most attention from them right now is "Inter-Soc Meetings." Everyone getting to know everyone else. Does this sound like something that interests you guys as well.

I had a talk in a shop container last night with a First Circle member from NBK soc, and he projected an enormous amount of enthusiasm for these ideas. I am still waiting for him, or another NBK, member to log into one of these forums and make that enthusiasm public. I look forward to that.

I am also looking forward to hearing the ideas from the Forsaken Camp ... Anyone?

Thanks,
Tool.

EDITED:

Another theme that continues to surface is the idea of communications: A "Central Communications Hub," if you will. Right now, as it stands, we are currently running back-n-forth between three different forums. Anyone have any ideas about how to solve this? Anyone that can volunteer to administer a new forum?

[Makrocow]

Great post Toolman. you realy did put your heart in those words. The idea of ´the union of the societys is great vision, one of the best dreams to be fullfilled in PE. But the idea is not new. I personaly have been thinking this from the day when our society Hunters Extreme got it first bleeding wound....The scar brobably will never fully heal.(like the one made by dagger of Mordeath in TWOT. ;) )..... I fear that the first broblem on the way of makeing this dream true is difficulties in realtime communications between societys. MA should make one more higher chatting channel allowing allied socityes to talk all the time.
(all) (event) (Chat) (soc.chat) (team) (uber Soc Chat) :D

[Burgerman]

Very nice ideas Toolman, and very moving words. I will comment more when I have more time, but for now I say " Well Said " and I certainly support your views. :-)

[itto]

hiya
I let Mak's post speak for the H.E view uupon the Topic and im fully assure that the CCC feels the same

As for a name..hmm 5 soc's in a union ..well in my mindset that is "Go rin no sho" - "Book of five Rings"
and as for a "communication hub" no problem it could be easily done with a "mother forum" with sub forums either with a central administration for all or with independant administration.

However im as usual writing this in a rush on my way to work
but i think you have struck a "long lost thread" here, to quote "this question isn´t new" however still not fullfilled

I think alot has to be said in this matter before anything can be done but im 100% sure it can be done ;-)

[itto]

PS

is it possible to point all ppl to this thread to avoid several threads on the same topic ?

[ToolMan]

PS

is it possible to point all ppl to this thread to avoid several threads on the same topic ?

Good idea, and thanks for volunteering to let everyone come here to discuss the issue. This invitation to come here to participate in the discussion has been sent to oCZ and ZC camps. I will post a formal invitation for the CCC and HX members when I return from work today. I only hope there are NBK members watching aswell.

Also, after much conversation with people ingame, and through our forums, we have developed a great many strategies. I can't wait to share them with you apon my return home from work, but I must go at this time. I look forward to sharing these thoughts with you, and can't wait to hear more from you and yours.

Tool.

[ToolMan]

Sorry for the delay, but I got a little side tracked yesterday. It’s nice that we contemplate these things, and it’s an interesting universe that we live in indeed that allows us such possibilities, but it’s also nice to play the game too. So, back to business.

Thanks for all the replies. I am very pleased to see that so many people are interested in these ideas. Special thanks to Itto, Burgerman, and Klodvig for their responses here, and a special thanks to Zychion Citizens for their responses as well. I would also like to thank CC Cowboys and Hunters Extreme for allowing me to join their forums. My posts must be almost obtrusive and invasive, but they allow me the space to do it anyway. Thanks.

True enough, this is not an original idea: but then again, not many are. I think it’s important to look at what we want to accomplish here, honestly, and with open eyes. What are the primary goals of attempting such a thing as this? Let’s look at that now, shall we?

_____________


1) PED Savings for all.

The largest factor that controls the market in PE, aside from MA, is greed. People insist that they must get their 150%, 200%, 1500% for items that have value above and beyond that of the trade terminal. In the end, what are we dealing with? 1500% for Molisk Teeth @ 1 pec a piece? Sure, pec’s = PED’s, but at the end of the day we are counting pennies, are we not?

Are we not above the pettiness of such things, and can we not come to a reasonable trade agreement that we can all live with, something that transcends our greed and lust for PED’s? Something simple, to start off with, like a trade agreement between socs that allows for an open trade market of 50% below standard mark-up would be a great starting point.

2) Increased Production Levels for all Trades.

Such savings attained via this trade agreement will allow for increased production levels for everyone involved. Colorers could increase their skills more effectively, Tailorers could follow suit. Crafters would have a larger resource pool from which to find ores and enmatters and would be able to develop better weapons and tools. The ‘lesser’ weapons and tools on which they skill (TT food mostly) could be given to Traders at TT value, and the ‘better’ weapons and tools could be given to hunters and miners at greatly reduced rates: even TT value for those at times as well. Traders that benefit from such arrangements often find themselves in a position to keep and eye on the open market for items that are beyond the skill of crafting, and can find great deals on these items too, working, in turn, for the Hunters and Miners that have helped them so much.

3) Increased PvP Capabilities

It’s true enough: such agreements allow each individual society the ability to call upon PvP resources that are normally not at their disposal. There are a great many reasons to do this, like PvP3 support missions, mining claims guarded by Falx and Spiders, areas that are beyond the approach of a single miner, the up-coming Mining/PvP event at cND, and even retribution for wrongs against our societies.

_____________


Next, I’ve been asked a great many questions in-game that I would like to transfer here, as they are VERY good questions and I’m almost certain that most of you have entertained such questions yourself.

Someone said, “It’s like when I asked someone to join our soc, and he replied, ‘Why? I can do everything on my own!’” … but can he?

Can he hunt and mine and craft his way into everything that he needs? Can he trade 500 Zinc with himself? Can he protect himself from the Spiders and Falx that stand in his way? Can he walk in and out of PvP unscathed? Can he protect himself from the Warrents and the Coat Killers that seek to thwart his efforts? I think not, and there is power in numbers that can do what one can not. I think that the world of Calypso would be a very boring place to live if I were the only person there, what about you?

What of this question, “Why not just have one large society that can do these things?” Let’s look at the numbers here, together, and see how reasonable this idea really is.

So far there are three interested societies and three in the que. This is a total of six possible societies from which to draw our resources. Now, if each society has 20 members that’s 120 people. Can you manage a society with 120 active members? I doubt it! That’s a micro-management technique that would drive someone to a heart-attack in a short period of time. Our proposition is a macro-management technique that will help to ensure that the population of “The Union” will remain active and vital with the minimal managerial effort.

Soc leaders remain responsible for their own society management, modest, simple, and no different from what they have been doing since their society was founded. All of us together make something that is greater than what we have been doing on our own. I have brought my soc and two others. One of the societies that I have brought into the light of this plan (The Forsaken) has already invited two other societies. What about when they invite two, and their two invite two more also? Can we see how growth along these levels will develop exponentially? Is it not conceivable that 120 could easily turn into 250 or 500 members? Can you manage that on your own?

____________

Ok, last point here. Lol … I saved the best for last.

Action!

No, this is NOT a new idea, but we must succeed where no one else has. How can we achieve what so many before us have attempted and failed?

Action!

The attempts of the past are the framework that guides us, and their error was not in plan or concept, but in a lack of action. It’s easy to talk about how wonderful this is, and how great that is, and what a wonderful world is would be if we all worked together, but ‘saying’ and ‘doing’ are not the same. What are we to do to separate our attempt from those before us?

Action! Action! Action!

We must put our plan into action before we loose all enthusiasm for the endeavor. We must take steps to insure the safety of this design before it falls apart in our hands. We must move forward before well fall backwards.

This is my action proposal. We must form the Union NOW! Let’s take two members from every society involved and use those members to represent us in “The Union.” How you decide who the two members are that will represent your society in this union is not important, and is a personal society matter. What is important is that we find those members as soon as possible.

This union will also require leadership. After we have established this union let’s have each society nominate one member for the leadership role, and then allow the union members to vote on who is best suited to take that active leadership role.

Lastly, and very important here, we MUST develop the “Central Communications Hub” for Union discussion. I am still looking forward to hearing from volunteers that are interested in establishing a forum for this communication effort, and am interested in hearing from any interested party.

[ToolMan]

UPDATE: Comm-Hub established ... it's in the making as we speak =)

Special thanks to Matt "Kharak" Skinner for graciously volunteering for this. It's a great help. Looking forward to seeing the final result soon.

[Makrocow]

This is very interesting indeed. im looking forward to see how this alliance idea is evolving.

[itto]

"Haste is the path to the Dark Side. Haste leads to anger; anger leads to hate; hate leads to suffering. I sense much Haste in you." - Itto's Mater Yoda travesty

Hi all
Forgive me for being the partypooper here but isnt this going to fast !?
I agree i almost that have been said in this thread
But i think we need to give ppl a chance to think this over, to discuss it internally in Soc!

I also think we should have a kind of a Com. Hob but shouldnt we first agree on how it should be designed, who & where is should be hosted etc etc
And i also agree om that we should form an kind of a federation but shouldn't we first agree on whats the purpose, what kind of values the new federation should comitt too..

Imho we should form a statement that every soc kan take into consideration both for now when we form this federation but also for future Soc who wants to join

A meeting with the Soc representives i think is a good start ..

[Bunny]

For once we agree Itto. :roll: I think that at the very least the head of each society should have a meeting to discuss the points you have raised and any additional ideas they may have. A draft proposal should be drawn up and then after it is finalized each and every member of each society should vote on these issues. These are matters that should not be taken lightly and should benefit all not just some. This of course is only my opinion.

[ToolMan]

It's true ... it IS moving very rapidly. It's true ... it is my intention to move this matter forward swiftly. Why?

The wind is in our sails ... let's ride it while we have it, before we loss it.

... but it is also not my intention to break our mast with this wind, and I am willing to slow things down.

I think that the idea for a meeting with the society leaders and other society members is a GREAT one =) ... it's awesome :-) In fact, in post #3 I mentioned that the ZC Camp is very interested in a meeting. I'm glad to see that we all want to meet with one another. This is a good start.

So, what's everyone doing this Sunday? Would a time of 3PM In-Game time be good for everyone? I'm from the USA, and that's about 10AM for me here: it works for me. I think that's also 3PM in the UK too. Not too sure about places farther away though :S Does anyone have an apartment that they would volunteer us to use for the meeting, or should we choose a more accessible, yet private, location on Eudoria?

I look forward to a meeting with everyone interested in these ideas. Let's Do It :)

[Klodvig]

Hmm I donnu but at least me Itto and Quido have developed some kind of small arrangement and one thing that I have learn from that is that its hard work wich is needed and it will be even harder if we dont know eachother. Perhaps we schould as u have suggested try to meet as many possible from each society and at least try to add a few as friends. I have made many friends with the words gratz now and then.

This will be hard to arrange but one way is to "claim" one area in the world of calypso as a place to meet, not just once but all of the time. Like wolverines hope or some other place not to high populated.

I like ur ideas but as Itto said it doesnt hurt to hurry a bit slower, well he didnt use thoose words but :PP

[itto]

This will be hard to arrange but one way is to "claim" one area in the world of calypso as a place to meet, not just once but all of the time. Like wolverines hope or some other place not to high populated.


I think this is the forst kind of comunication Hub we need, a place where everyone know that there you find "us"

As you all know this is pretty much how cK got so famous, by claming PvP1 as their turf..

[ToolMan]

I love all of the ideas and thoughts that everyone is contributing, and yesterday during a meeting with Runt, HE soc leader, we also discussed a few problems that hinder such a progress as this. I hope that there are a few of you that are willing to meet to share your ideas with everyone.

... today, @ Fort Fury Bar, 3PM Game-Time.

Cheers.

[Stratos]

Hard stuff to read :) , but the Idea is it worth to think over and engage in.

[itto]

Today the first meeting of the Soc Federation was held or shall i say fedration to be :)
Suprisingly many showed up and the meeting soon was an "free for all"
Out of the Chaos one suggestion was made: form a Group that gives us a draft that we can consider back home!

So a group was formed, with:

Toolman (OCZ)
Aziphirael (SMA)
DD (SMA)
Makrocow (H.E)
Itto (tF)The task for the group is to produce a draft of the basic foundaments that the federations is to be based on
After the draft is delivered to all Soc's, the Soc's will have a chance to have a say about the draft.
During this draft-process a common forum will be set up for communication in Federation matters

This thread will be used in the furure for this matter, so stay tuned ;-)

[Bunny]

This sounds hopeful so far and I think it may be a step in the right direction. :-D

[itto]

My personal opinion is that this is a great idea and can bring us all alot of good things!
In the short perspective it will gives alot of new friends and new contacts
And we all know that friends and contacts are the key to PE (and the key to party invitations :-D ) in the long term..well the sky is the limit ;-)

However many good ideas have been ruined by bad implementations, so there will be no "rushing into things" here. We will slowly discuss and form this federation to make sure the good things get into it anf the bad things stay out of it

So there is no reason for start to discuss the trade rates of lyst here(or PM me)and now or how a LG would be conducted under a Federated flag. All this a miles (swedish miles are very long) away from where we are today

So i like you all to keep an open mind about this until we actually see the final draft of Federation Foundation
Then we can start to discuss if <tF> should join or not join for a starter...